Nice trip Ian. I see you’ve been silenced on j2ski over your comments on out of bounds insurance!

We had rain yesterday to 2300-2500 meters, it is just white on the very tops of the summits opposite my house. Little snow left on the Jura when I arrived in Geneva this morning, a bit of a washout all round. Still pretty normal for the start of November. I never count on snow settling before the second half of November.

davidof - 01 November 2010 09:43 AM

Nice trip Ian. I see you’ve been silenced on j2ski over your comments on out of bounds insurance!

removed by ise, any discussion of insurance is apparently out of bounds. This wasn’t editorial policy at pistehors, David runs a good forum, I just don’t need the abuse.

davidof - 01 November 2010 09:43 AM

We had rain yesterday to 2300-2500 meters, it is just white on the very tops of the summits opposite my house. Little snow left on the Jura when I arrived in Geneva this morning, a bit of a washout all round. Still pretty normal for the start of November. I never count on snow settling before the second half of November.

Seems about the same around here, when we set up the trip to Samoens a while back I was really dubious there’d be snow. In fact, I’d really planned to do some stuff on foot using the winter rooms and head to Chamonix over the Col d’Anterne but there was too much snow on the Chamonix side.

I may try Les Diablerets later in the week for a half day, I’ve some other business over there and I think the lift’s running. If there’s a load of snow you can climb up above the top lift providing your insurer is offering close air support of course.

ise - 01 November 2010 10:17 AM

It is extraordinary that people think their insurer is obliged to cover them for whatever madcap escapade they’ve come up with using whatever gear they’ve just bought off ebay.

This whole thing seems to have come up on the UK forums because someone has “discovered” that you are not insured if, as you say, you set off on madcap adventures. He’s promoted his facebook page around the place and I will include it here for reference:-

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=134900026541300&topic=150

and has a load of responses from insurers. Once concern is that he’s neither a lawyer nor snow professional (like yourself) so, with the best of intentions, perhaps just adds to the general fog of internet information or misinformation (aka wikialities).

It is not exactly a scoop that if you take out insurance which says no off piste without a pro you will not be covered if you go it alone. But people don’t seem to read their policy documents. You made the very good point that insurance companies may want you to ski with a professional, guide, instructor or otherwise not just because it should lower your risk but because they can then claim off their insurance. That has an effect on the premium they can charge.

There are claims that insurance underwriters are toughening up their terms and conditions… but most of the UK “punter” policies I’ve seen have always had fairly limited off piste cover. I would be dubious about covering inexperienced skiers off piste above risk 2 as well to be honest.

-- edited to add Facebook discussion for reference

removed by ise, any discussion of insurance is apparently out of bounds. This wasn’t editorial policy at pistehors, David runs a good forum, I just don’t need the abuse.

endless ride,

regarding the skiclub GB websites historical snow reports, tell me which main resort you are close to and ill copy you their historical data for youre region.  Loving the fresh powder everywhere, Val Thorens looks like its covering well.

Dave

Hi Dave,

Don’t copy it here though as the Ski Club may have some copyright on their figures, and even if not they seem to have commercial reasons for keeping them behind the paywall.

many thanks

David

Fresh snow on the Belledonne range down to 1200 (1700m forecast) and 1000 m on the Chartreuse. It is just a dusting for now. Otherwide the skiline is around 2000 meters altitude.

how is it for temperature? it still seems fairly warm here and I think it may be warmer towards the weekend again.

there should be getting on for a couple of metres on the glaciers though, if I ever find time to go

Snow line was down to 900 meters in the Isere this morning. I feel that the snow tires will shortly be coming out of the garage. Not THAT cold though, I managed to cycle 10 minutes in Geneva this morning without my hands freezing. We are promised another couple of days of snow showers with a return to better weather on Wednesday/Thursday.

forecast out to Friday is for rain at 2400 meters (40cm of snow at 2700m)

I must say I find your comments very ill informed David. Ise I am a little surprised at you. If you want to try and discredit what I am posting then you should really get the facts correct. First off, it was others that were doing the research at the start not me. A great many of the quotes that are on my facebook site come directly from senior people in the various companies, not binding comments as we all know but still interesting and worth posting.Regarding the interpretation of these details, that is up to each person that reads them. I think it is a subject well worth covering and will continue to do so. One of the best things that have come out of this is that the resort authorities have gone so far as to advice that anyone skiing off piste should have the correct kit. If all this research achieves is to have more youngsters and older people carrying gear just in case, it was worth the effort. You do not have to agree, but that is what I think.

removed by ise, any discussion of insurance is apparently out of bounds. This wasn’t editorial policy at pistehors, David runs a good forum, I just don’t need the abuse.

Well well, and to think at one time we got on. First off, you are not a ski instructor or a high mountain guide unless you have passed some qualifications I do not know about. If you have then fair enough and I apologies but what are these new qualifications you have? Unless you have gained something since we last spoke, do not try and give me advice, you are no more qualified and a lot less experienced than I am in the mountains so please do not start preaching at me.

Regarding our research. Nobody pretended to be anything other than who they were, members of the public looking for information about off piste insurance. Some were people with policies and they made that clear, others were open about making enquiries regarding taking out new policies. The questions were all asked in an open and frank manner. Nothing was done to trick anyone so get your facts correct.

The responses we have been given, in all cases did not come from telephone people, but more senior members of staff in the form of emails, verbal details have not been posted. As to the results of this research, yes whether you like it or not things are changing and people are finding the details we are sharing very interesting and want me to continue to do so.The wording in policies is being reviewed by the companies, there words not ours.

If you had concerns about what I was posting, why did you not contact me, you could have very easily done so instead of posting your rants in places on the Internet that I do not visit very often.

In all the posts that have been shared, those posting the information have made it clear that people should read what has been posted and make up there own minds, nobody is selling anything, just sharing  what has been told to them. A very useful thing to be done and something I have not myself come across covering this range of companies in this depth about one aspect of insurance before, so as far as I am concerned it is original research and very interesting. You can think what you like.

I am pleased to hear that you would always carry your kit with you, unfortunately there are many people that do not do this when off piste. By bring this topic into the public area it makes people more aware of the risks they are taking and that is a very good thing.

Regarding my understanding of Avalanche levels, one point of this exercise is to show how different companies use different words and do not follow the standard way levels are described so quite often causing misunderstanding. This has already had a positive effect and some companies have said they are looking at ways of improving this understanding of what they really mean.

I could go on further, but I think that is enough. Whether you like what we are doing or not is up to you, but please do not rant about me, giving the appearance that you are more knowledgeable than us about this subject, or are you an underwriter and have not admitted this??

removed by ise, any discussion of insurance is apparently out of bounds. This wasn’t editorial policy at pistehors, David runs a good forum, I just don’t need the abuse.

Please do enlighten me as to what these new qualifications are as I have looked on your web site and I do  not see any.

Regarding my apology, it is most certainly not for what I have been doing and intend to keep doing regarding the Insurance discussion and the research we are doing.

It was simply to say that, if you were more qualified than I currently know, it might give you a little more right to criticise what I or others have been posting. The fact is I have more than 25 years of experience living and working in mountainous areas of the world, and do know a little about what I am talking.

I am more than happy to stay friends as well, but please in future contact me first before attacking what I am doing in public without the true facts before you.