You might remember the case of French competitor Patrick Blanc who tested positive for EPO in the Swiss PDG.

http://pistehors.com/news/ski/comments/drug-taking-in-ski-mountaineering/

Now EPO is pretty major league doping and probably way beyond anything anyone here would consider so I was wondering what performance enhancing products you pack in your rucksack?

I will confess to having used sports drinks in the past but have been advised against it so generally take sugary lemon tea and water. However I have a Red-Bull one shot (a can of red-bull in a tiny bottle) in my small first aid kit. It is useful if you are close to a summit/col and but are running on empty. Say for the last 250 meters climbin. Take them too early and you risk burning out. It is a bit like a solid fuel booster.

Hi,

You say ‘I will confess to having used sports drinks in the past but have been advised against it’.

Why was this?

Personally, I find that a can of energy drink hits the spot when the legs are flagging. Other than that a flask of hot chocolate and a squeezy pack of Creme Anglaise (custard!) provide an easy way to take in some calories. As to Epo…

For some years, the drumbeat of concern about Epo has been growing in the medical community. In 2008, a major review article published in the Journal of the American Medical Association reported that Epo, when used to relieve the anemia associated with chemotherapy, increased the risk of death. Other studies before and since have intimated that the drug stimulates the growth of certain tumors, a particularly unwelcome outcome for a treatment used in cancer patients. The worries have mounted to the point that, earlier this month, doctors with the Center for Drug Evaluation and Research division of the Food and Drug Administration published a cautionary report in The New England Journal of Medicine saying that the recent Epo trials “raise major concerns regarding” the drug and that the F.D.A. anticipates “convening a public advisory committee meeting in 2010 to re-evaluate” its use.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/20/phys-ed-will-olympic-athletes-dope-if-they-know-it-might-kill-them/

I’m a big fan of supplements in general so when skiing I take the following things that could increase my performance:
- Creatinine in the mornings to increase maximum power
- Coffee in the morning and during the day for the caffeine
- Resveratrol and Rhodiola Rosea in the morning for endurance and energy
- Small doses of ephedrine during powder days (I bought some over the counter in Canada)
- Small sips of Chartreuse-Elixir Vegetal when I’m in the mood (130 beneficial herbs, 71% alcohol
- Magnesium-Potassium after skiing for muscle recovery

..EPO sounds too dangerous, otherwise I could consider it…

by the heck, I just have a cup of tea and some kendal mint cake.

The recent criticism of sport drinks I’ve heard is that many of them are acidic—mainly for reasons of taste. Acid temporarily softens and long-term can slowly erode your teeth.
Just like acid forms pockets in limestone rock (e.g. southern France and lots of other places in Europe)—it can erode pockets out of the surface of your teeth. I speak from sad personal experience (acid not from sport drinks).
. (can try web searches on like “acid erosion teeth”.)
. (hint: lots of fruit juices are significantly acidic.)

Another source of acid in the mouth is normally occurring bacteria that digest sugars (maybe they digest other carbohydrates too, but sugars seem to be what they like best). The body’s normal defense against this is lots of saliva production to dilute the acid (and help swallow the sugar). For sugar in a sport drink, I guess the drink itself would help dilute the resulting acid—(if it were a brand which is not already significantly acidic).

So currently I’m in a “reform” phase where I drink on tours either plain water or decaf coffee with milk.

Caffeine:
Sometimes I used to drink full-caffeine coffee during a tour, but since then I read that it doesn’t help with athletic performances longer than an hour - (though it is well-known to provide a temporary boost in aerobic performances much shorter than an hour)

EPO:
It’s a normal substance in our body. We would die after some period of time without it.

Frequent skiing at altitudes typical for the European Alps stimulates production of additional EPO. So if you think EPO is in itself an evil substance, then consider moving to Norway so you can ski at lower altitude.

Likewise using altitude-simulation tents/rooms or other means of breathing reduced-oxygen air stimulates additional EPO. It’s a (currently?) sport-legal method of manipulating EPO that avoids injections - (though I assume it’s less effective than injections).
I would guess that the percentage of top ski-mountaineering racers using altitude-simulation tents is significantly larger than zero.

The basic problem with EPO is that it works: it does its job of increasing the concentration of red blood cells. Result A: more oxygen to the muscles.
Result B: increased risk of unintended clotting.
Small increase in red blood cell count ==> Small increase in incidence of embolisms + strokes
Large increase in red blood cell count ==> Large increase in incidence of embolisms + strokes

So if you spend lots of time skiing in the Alps, you’re slightly increasing the risk of having an embolism or stroke (other things being equal, which they usually aren’t).

Myself, I’ll keep doing it.

Ken

I’ve been quite a keen user of Lucozade Sport Caffeine Boost for a couple of years.  I don’t normally take any caffeinated drinks, and possibly because of that, really notice the enlivening and concentrating effect of this drink (I believe that numerous studies have shown that caffeine improves concentration and lowers the perceived feeling of exertion).  I mainly use it before running or going to the gym, but I think it also provides a burst during tours.

I used to take “Sportenine” tablets. They consist of Fructose, Dextrose, Arnica, Zinc. They did wonder. I used to give them in several occasions to totally exhausted off-piste-skiers. Everybody recovered miraclously, greeted me at night in town with “le saveur de ma vie” and got “addicted” for themselves. On the package it says “ceci n’est pas un dopant”, an endurance-boosting hommage a Margritte. I’m sad to say that Boiron took this tablets from the market a fewa years ago.

Nowadays I take Greek Mountain Tea with sugar, water, bananas and dark bread.

Bob’s best mate - 04 February 2010 11:39 AM

Hi,

You say ‘I will confess to having used sports drinks in the past but have been advised against it’.

Why was this?

People I was touring with a lot at the time said the danger was you get dependent on them and then when you only have water to drink, say you are doing a long distance tour or run out of your isotonic drink, your body misses the boost of minerals etc.

Talking about energy drinks. My experience is that relying on them too soon can give you a boost and you then blow up before reaching the summit.

Bob’s best mate - 04 February 2010 11:39 AM

Hi,
You say ‘I will confess to having used sports drinks in the past but have been advised against it’.

I advise people against it for a lot of activities, or at least make a more informed decision about if they really need them.

Why? They’re a con to an extent, they’re sold on the basis you need to rehydrate and replace lost salts. But is that true? It turns out not really, to cut a long story short your loss of salts and the other contents of isotonic drinks isn’t going to overtake your replenishment of them unless you decide not to eat anything either. That is a situation you are in running a marathon, doing the PDG and so on, but there’s no reason you should put yourself in that situation out hiking, skiing, climbing etc. About the minimum food I would take out is a bag of nuts and dried fruit, often I’d take a bit of bread and cheese as well, but just the fruit and nuts is enough along with water to keep your salt or mineral levels topped up.

So personally I do have some sports drink stuff and I use it for nordic skiing if I’m doing a 10 or 20km circuit or if I’m out on the bike for a couple of hours, if we’re out doing either all day I’ll have a rucksack with food and I take plain water then.

Tartiflette, vin blanc and genepi as hut diet

ericlodi - 05 February 2010 08:31 PM

Tartiflette, vin blanc and genepi as hut diet

surely you man Truffade Eric?

Yeah I have to adapt to Massif Central so tomorrow will be truffade at the bergerie for lunch. Guarantee to shred powder away after that!

Take it easy out there, there seem to be quite a lot of avalanche incidents over there. Puy Mary, Peyre Arse (love that mountain), seems like the east faces are quite instable (like here).

Yes, classic but deadly East windslabs from last week dump + warming 13 deg C in half day…
Today we have got about 60 cm of fresh snow, wind again, low adhesion to base… Anyway good for skiing and telemarking on pistes and easy terrain!
Stay safe!

ise - 05 February 2010 07:45 AM

your loss of salts and the other contents of isotonic drinks isn’t going to overtake your replenishment of them unless you decide not to eat anything either.

Some top American randonnee skiers have been saying similar things lately—that hydration isn’t very important for winter + early spring touring.

My thought: If I’m not sweating much, then I’m not losing much water and electrolytes, so there’s no need to replace much water + electrolytes.
(assuming I’m reasonably well hydrated before I start the tour.)

Fuel:
Out in the real backcountry, I’m not supposed to be climbing so fast that I’m pushing anywhere near my muscular limits—need to keep substantial reserve in my muscles in case something unexpected happens.

If I just eat food that tends toward carbohydrates and I can digest it easily, then calories from digesting that, together with some body fat transported to my muscles, and some glycogen stored in my muscles—is plenty to sustain a rate of climbing kept well within my sustainable muscular limits.
(true for me: ? possibly not for elite racers ?)

Perhaps if I want to climb a little faster for several days in row (why?), I might want to try to pump more carbos thru my stomach and intestines to “spare glycogen” for future days.

But if I’m not racing (which I’m not), then why not instead just wake up half an hour earlier each of those days?
The usual answer: Because I’m skiing with partners who don’t want to get up half an hour earlier.

Ken

P.S. regarding altitude-simulation tents and EPO ... I found out that a couple of years ago a young American athlete who had publicly advocated training with (supposedly safer) altitude-simulation techniques instead of EPO, had suffered a serious blood clot - (fortunately came through it OK).