Looking to get a set of skis for touring, and looking for any recommendations about where to start.

I’m an alpine skier intermediate/expert, plenty of snow time over the last 10 years. 5’10, 12.5 stone. UK 8 boot. Ski a pair of Dynastar Omecarve 10’s in a 172 for piste days, Faction Wednesday’s in 178 for everything else. Lange L10 boots currently, but want to switch to something a little less stiff in general regardless of wanting to tour.

I figure buying touring skis will mean a set of dedicated touring bindings. I am also unlikely to be doing anything particularly hardcore, or longer than the odd day tour, so I am not sure if I should be getting ultra lights, or just a tried and trust alpine ski with touring bindings.

Boots are a concern also - I am/was seriously considering the Salomon Quest’s if they fit so I could change DINs to touring, but will probably still be doing much more downhill than touring, so I am not sure if they sacrifice too much, but would obviously rather not have two pairs of boots.

In terms of safety etc, is buying second hand touring gear wise? Been browsing around on the Buy/Sell and figure something could come up.

Thanks!

Second hand gear can ok if you get a good deal (people selling those Barons they bought a couple of years ago or better, selling their Explores to drink the Tech binding kool aid).

There are a lot of boot choices out there, the 100% most important thing is fit and this is the place to start. I would buy new if you can afford.

Skis, lots of bargains to be had if you look on fleabay or at places like Sport Conrad. I would look around 80-85 mm which should cope with most conditions you will find on the mountain and still keep you around 3kgs. Be careful with second hand skis, broken edges are not uncommon, my Sweet Daddies have two fractures in them.

Talking bindings, I’ve used Dynafiddles for over a decade and have hundreds of thousands of meters of vertical on them and tend to be a bit agnostic these days. If you are reasonably fit Explorers or Marker FT12 would probably be more flexible and certainly easier to use. I don’t really buy all this “lifting a tonne of extra weight over 1000meter theories”. If you are seriously worried about weight get the ATK Race RT Light, half the weight of the Dynafit Low Tech with adjustable front release as well.

http://pistehors.com/news/forums/viewthread/660/

Reasonable prices and excellent advice and service is also available from Telemark Pyrenees.
Bargains on last season’s Movement skis can be had at nobleboards.co.uk and their sister site noblecustom.co.uk - just click through to Ski & Snowboard Clearance.
I am sure there are many more excellent outlets dotted all over the place.
Good luck.

davidof - 20 January 2011 03:09 PM

Second hand gear can ok if you get a good deal (people selling those Barons they bought a couple of years ago or better, selling their Explores to drink the Tech binding kool aid).

There are a lot of boot choices out there, the 100% most important thing is fit and this is the place to start. I would buy new if you can afford.

Skis, lots of bargains to be had if you look on fleabay or at places like Sport Conrad. I would look around 80-85 mm which should cope with most conditions you will find on the mountain and still keep you around 3kgs. Be careful with second hand skis, broken edges are not uncommon, my Sweet Daddies have two fractures in them.

Talking bindings, I’ve used Dynafiddles for over a decade and have hundreds of thousands of meters of vertical on them and tend to be a bit agnostic these days. If you are reasonably fit Explorers or Marker FT12 would probably be more flexible and certainly easier to use. I don’t really buy all this “lifting a tonne of extra weight over 1000meter theories”. If you are seriously worried about weight get the ATK Race RT Light, half the weight of the Dynafit Low Tech with adjustable front release as well.

Thanks for the info. I have to say, I am so green to touring that words like Barons, Explores etc mean little to me, and I am intrigued on the background of people moving to “tech” bindings. I keep plugging away on the site though, but I’m literally after anything to get my moving up hill - I have no preference on weight etc.

phil - 20 January 2011 04:51 PM

Reasonable prices and excellent advice and service is also available from Telemark Pyrenees.
Bargains on last season’s Movement skis can be had at nobleboards.co.uk and their sister site noblecustom.co.uk - just click through to Ski & Snowboard Clearance.
I am sure there are many more excellent outlets dotted all over the place.
Good luck.

Thanks Phil. I’ve crossed paths with Dave Noble before and didn’t think of Movement for some reason despite seeing so many mounted with Tele bindings.

I am off to ISPO in February for alpine related matters so will try and find some poor unsuspecting rep to talk me through everything.

Star - 20 January 2011 02:39 PM

Boots are a concern also - I am/was seriously considering the Salomon Quest’s if they fit so I could change DINs to touring, but will probably still be doing much more downhill than touring, so I am not sure if they sacrifice too much, but would obviously rather not have two pairs of boots.

I’m using Quest 8s with an added Booster Strap, added spoiler and different liners (original liners didn’t fit).

I’m getting on well with them, but I’m happy with soft boots, my previous boots were an Atomic 80 flex, and I don’t find the Quest 8s much stiffer fore and aft, although the Quests are stiffer than my old Atomics side to side. The locking mechanism which holds the boots in skiing mode only stops the cuff moving backwards, it doesn’t stop the cuff moving forwards. I’ve also read on TGR that the forward flex of Quest 12s is similarly soft, so that might be a bit of a shock if you are coming from stiff Langes.

Also I guess you know already that the Quests can’t be used with Dynafit bindings.

davidof - 20 January 2011 03:09 PM

If you are seriously worried about weight ...

If you are seriously concerned about weight, look into getting an NNN-BC setup.

I sorta remember hearing once that some sort of record for the Chamonix-Zermatt Haute Route was set by some Norwegians on NNN-BC gear.

We can’t know what would happen in modern rando races because the rules of most races forbid NNN-BC. So the Dynafit-compatibles are artificially protected against competition.

Anyway Dynafit-compatibles are just another compromise. A truly rigorous application of “Light is Right” leads somewhere else.

Personally I take my compromise level around the level of the Fritschi Eagle because seems like a better bet for preventing a broken leg out in the backcountry (arguably the latest light Marker binding also could provide this).

I also own very light Dynafit-compatible bindings + boots + skis, but I do my big long ski mountaineering tours on Fritschi bindings and 4-buckle boots and mid-weight skis. Bigger tours and more of them than most people on Dynafits. 

Ken

Following this thread - I have a setup for sale - 182cm Salomon Foils, Marker Dukes and Skins - 2 years old. I’m asking €300 for them.

Where’s a good place to advertise these? I’m based near Morzine in the Haute Savoie - They’re on ebay and leboncoin.fr - anywhere else people would suggest?

Star - 20 January 2011 02:39 PM

… would obviously rather not have two pairs of boots.

Well it’s not “obvious”. I’ve accumulated about four different boots just for backcountry—and they all still work. Seems like it’s much easier to travel with an extra pair of boots than an extra pair of skis.

Which brings me to . . . If you’re going to try to travel with only one pair of skis+bindings to use for both lift-served and backcountry, that might change your decision. Since that’s my usual approach, it has pushed me toward a slightly heavier binding for (hopefully) greater release safety against bad bone + joint injuries.

If I normally could have two pairs of ski+bindings with me in France, I guess one would be a lighter setup for days with consistent easy-skiing snow conditions with very fast partners—where I’d be careful not to do tricky moves or tricky snow that might test the release capability of a perhaps less-release-reliable binding. For days with less confidence in snow quality + consistency I’d take heavier skis + 4-buckle boots to turn difficult snow into fun turning, or to enjoy some lift-served bump skiing, with a safer binding in case I hit some mogul the wrong way.

If you’re trying for a “quiver of one”, and lack experience with a wide range of backcountry snow, I’d say better to err on the side of heavier armament. It’s a compromise to ponder, because if you don’t tour much, or don’t train specifically for touring (as I do), then lighter skis-boots-bindings could make a significant difference in your uphill climbing speed. But most of the great ski tours in France + Switzerland can still be done without super-light gear by a reasonably athletic person.

Star - 20 January 2011 02:39 PM

In terms of safety etc, is buying second hand touring gear wise?

How about “not obviously unwise”.
I doubt most backcountry ski tourers do much maintenance on their bindings—maybe check the adjustment once a year. Seems to me if the bindings are not actually damaged, and you have a shop check them over at the same time they’re adjusting them to fit your needs, that would be sufficient.

Ken

Oceanic - 21 January 2011 04:17 AM

Star - 20 January 2011 02:39 PM

Boots are a concern also - I am/was seriously considering the Salomon Quest’s if they fit so I could change DINs to touring, but will probably still be doing much more downhill than touring, so I am not sure if they sacrifice too much, but would obviously rather not have two pairs of boots.

I’m using Quest 8s with an added Booster Strap, added spoiler and different liners (original liners didn’t fit).

I’m getting on well with them, but I’m happy with soft boots, my previous boots were an Atomic 80 flex, and I don’t find the Quest 8s much stiffer fore and aft, although the Quests are stiffer than my old Atomics side to side. The locking mechanism which holds the boots in skiing mode only stops the cuff moving backwards, it doesn’t stop the cuff moving forwards. I’ve also read on TGR that the forward flex of Quest 12s is similarly soft, so that might be a bit of a shock if you are coming from stiff Langes.

Also I guess you know already that the Quests can’t be used with Dynafit bindings.

Thanks for the input. The Lange’s are stiff, but I’ve done all I can to make them soft - I’ll probably take a while to get use to softer boots but happy to get used to it. Re: the Quests and dynafit - I didn’t know that - so many new terms now am looking seriously at the tech that I just never took any notice of before. How does “tech” binding relate to Dynafit?

KenR - 21 January 2011 04:13 PM

davidof - 20 January 2011 03:09 PM

If you are seriously worried about weight ...

If you are seriously concerned about weight, look into getting an NNN-BC setup.

I sorta remember hearing once that some sort of record for the Chamonix-Zermatt Haute Route was set by some Norwegians on NNN-BC gear.

We can’t know what would happen in modern rando races because the rules of most races forbid NNN-BC. So the Dynafit-compatibles are artificially protected against competition.

Anyway Dynafit-compatibles are just another compromise. A truly rigorous application of “Light is Right” leads somewhere else.

Personally I take my compromise level around the level of the Fritschi Eagle because seems like a better bet for preventing a broken leg out in the backcountry (arguably the latest light Marker binding also could provide this).

I also own very light Dynafit-compatible bindings + boots + skis, but I do my big long ski mountaineering tours on Fritschi bindings and 4-buckle boots and mid-weight skis. Bigger tours and more of them than most people on Dynafits. 

Ken

I’m really not bothered by weight, more than is reasonable. I don’t want to be hauling 20kg of ski up the hill, but I don’t want my initial comments taken out of context. I really have no clue other than weight is probably more of a factor for going up than going down. My Omecarves have P14’s on them and together they weigh a ton.

KenR - 21 January 2011 05:30 PM

Star - 20 January 2011 02:39 PM

… would obviously rather not have two pairs of boots.

Well it’s not “obvious”. I’ve accumulated about four different boots just for backcountry—and they all still work. Seems like it’s much easier to travel with an extra pair of boots than an extra pair of skis.

Which brings me to . . . If you’re going to try to travel with only one pair of skis+bindings to use for both lift-served and backcountry, that might change your decision. Since that’s my usual approach, it has pushed me toward a slightly heavier binding for (hopefully) greater release safety against bad bone + joint injuries.

If I normally could have two pairs of ski+bindings with me in France, I guess one would be a lighter setup for days with consistent easy-skiing snow conditions with very fast partners—where I’d be careful not to do tricky moves or tricky snow that might test the release capability of a perhaps less-release-reliable binding. For days with less confidence in snow quality + consistency I’d take heavier skis + 4-buckle boots to turn difficult snow into fun turning, or to enjoy some lift-served bump skiing, with a safer binding in case I hit some mogul the wrong way.

If you’re trying for a “quiver of one”, and lack experience with a wide range of backcountry snow, I’d say better to err on the side of heavier armament. It’s a compromise to ponder, because if you don’t tour much, or don’t train specifically for touring (as I do), then lighter skis-boots-bindings could make a significant difference in your uphill climbing speed. But most of the great ski tours in France + Switzerland can still be done without super-light gear by a reasonably athletic person.

Star - 20 January 2011 02:39 PM

In terms of safety etc, is buying second hand touring gear wise?

How about “not obviously unwise”.
I doubt most backcountry ski tourers do much maintenance on their bindings—maybe check the adjustment once a year. Seems to me if the bindings are not actually damaged, and you have a shop check them over at the same time they’re adjusting them to fit your needs, that would be sufficient.

Ken

Now you are getting to the meat of it - did I mention I was green?

Ideally, I want a single boot/ski/binding setup. This is what turned me onto the Quests, but I didn’t think beyond that to the bindings.

I probably would rather heavier setups more akin to downhill that could tour, than something really suited for the touring specifically. I want to mix alpine and touring, and see if it suits me for a multitude of reasons. If I find myself touring more, then I can look at a longer term specific setup.

So, is it possible to get a boot/binding combo for lift served + backcountry that’s in any way “step in”?

Star - 24 January 2011 04:37 PM

So, is it possible to get a boot/binding combo for lift served + backcountry that’s in any way “step in”?

In my opinion: Yes.
(Had to finally register to this site, because gear talk is always nice .)

You have a lot of to choose from, but if I would now buy one ultimate starter setup it would be this:

This binding (step in binding):
http://www.marker.net/en/products/Tour-F-12
+ crampons + skins.

These skis:
http://k2skis.com/skis/adventure/wayback

Boots (the most important!):
Depending what will fit you, and how stiff you want to go. For example:
http://www.dynafit.at/product/schuhe/zzero4-c-tf
http://www.dynafit.at/product/schuhe/titan-tf-x

Garmont radium, dalbello virus, black diamond quadrant, etc

All pretty stiff mountaineering boots and ready for if you want to ski with dynafit bindings in the future (the boots have the tech inserts)!

It’s all about the overall weight, just sum up the whole setting. You can do 1000m uphill and enjoy downhill also.

Just a comment, are you looking to buy gear or get into touring? If the latter, get a simple fritschi rig and try it with your ski boots. You’ll get the idea of whether you enjoy it, whether you’re fit-enough etc without a big outlay. Reason I say this is some people talk about day tours but actually get tired and/or bored at about 2 hrs up. Skins are v expensive as well so if you start changing your skis add on the price of skins as well. Touring is like any sport. If you get into it you improve and get more discerning and you want to upgrade. On the other hand, if money is no object go Movement, go mainstream on bindings and boots and then you can’t blame the kit!

guybowden - 21 January 2011 04:33 PM

Following this thread - I have a setup for sale - 182cm Salomon Foils, Marker Dukes and Skins - 2 years old. I’m asking €300 for them.

Where’s a good place to advertise these? I’m based near Morzine in the Haute Savoie - They’re on ebay and leboncoin.fr - anywhere else people would suggest?

Put them on CamptoCamp.org and Skitour.fr. Maybe a little heavy for the weight weenies but the Savoyards of CampToCamp seem to be less fragile than the Grenoblois of Skitour.

22 Dropout - 01 February 2011 10:41 PM

Just a comment, are you looking to buy gear or get into touring? If the latter, get a simple fritschi rig and try it with your ski boots. You’ll get the idea of whether you enjoy it, whether you’re fit-enough etc without a big outlay. Reason I say this is some people talk about day tours but actually get tired and/or bored at about 2 hrs up. Skins are v expensive as well so if you start changing your skis add on the price of skins as well. Touring is like any sport. If you get into it you improve and get more discerning and you want to upgrade. On the other hand, if money is no object go Movement, go mainstream on bindings and boots and then you can’t blame the kit!

Good advice. I would add, try and get some Diamir Explores, Silvretta Pures or Naxos of ebay new. You can find them around 150 euros (often on ebay.de). Of the 3 I would say the Explores are the toughest binding although they have had some faults. You can mount these on existing skis if you have them and want to take your alpine bindings off. You need to fill in any existing holes with plastic dowels but you can also find some good deals on skis at the moment. You should consider around 80-85mm underfoot and around 3kg the pair. You can also find cheapish skins on ebay, around 60-80 euros (felle in German is you look at ebay.de). As 22 Dropout says you can do an hour or two of skiing with your existing ski boots (open all the clips so you can move your ankle), that would let you access quite a lot of terrain from ski resorts (with a bit of care for the risks).