SKI-MOUNTAINEERING ROPE TRAINING COURSE .....

I am organising a one-day, ski-mountaineering rope training course, at Plas y Brenin, Capel Curig, Conwy Wales, if anybody is interested in this type of activity. It is designed specifically for us and will hopefully be delivered by Martin Chester, and or one of their small team of experienced IFMGA Guides who work on ski courses. Maximum 4 people with each guide.

Basically the training will cover:

* Techniques for ascending & descending on ropes.

* Best equipment to carry and use.

COURSE DATE NOW CONFIRMED .... TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 16TH ... 09:00

If my date does not suit, they are happy to run further courses on any of the above dates. Cost is £230.00 for the day - 9am-5pm, split between the number on the course (Max.4 per guide). There are currrently two groups of 4 booked in.

I will be staying overnight - perhaps a de-briefing session afterwards in some suitable establishment ...

Looks excellent, keep us posted with bookings. Here are some ‘on snow’ pics this year from some ropework I did towards my French ski tour leaders accreditation

http://picasaweb.google.com/david.george/SecuriteSurGlacier#slideshow/5197277781414794562

but this is the kind of stuff you can practise anyway, although Conwy would be as pleasant a spot as any.

Great pictures Davidof & exactly the type of training this course has been formulated for. The emphasis is on safety and to provide a basic, but solid knowledge of ropework in the mountains. From replies to this Thread, it now looks like we are going to have three groups on the day.

just read your post on rope training course would very much like to join a group and brush up some skills . how do i contact .

scorpio ... just click the PM button under my name and send me your e-mail address. I will contact you next week when the Course date is finalised.

BernardC - 23 June 2008 01:25 PM

I will be staying overnight - perhaps a de-briefing session afterwards in some suitable establishment ...

There’s a decent bar in the centre and you can stay there. Centre facilities are excellent in fact. I’m quite probably there some of those dates although I’ll be slightly busy I’m sure I can find a moment for a quick drink! Let me know when you’re confirmed with dates.

davidof - 23 June 2008 09:08 PM

Looks excellent, keep us posted with bookings. Here are some ‘on snow’ pics this year from some ropework I did towards my French ski tour leaders accreditation

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/david.george/SecuriteSurGlacier

but this is the kind of stuff you can practise anyway, although Conwy would be as pleasant a spot as any.

indoors possibly, they managed to be the wettest place in the UK last week! I was there last week, ironically on the only day the sun came out we were stood waist deep in a river.

Apologies that this has taken so long, but I have had an unavoidable absence forced upon me ......  My dilligence, absolute cunning & hard work over the last few weeks has surely earned me another ski season .... 

I can now confirm that the course will be held on TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 16th - Commencing 09:00

I will e-mail / PM everybody who has indicated that they want to go on this.

If you want to take part in this course and haven’t heard from me in a day or so, then please PM me.

STOP PRESS ...... 

Unfortunately one of our esteemed group has had to drop out of this course and there is ONE place available if anybody wants to take advantage of this course, whilst basking in the Mediterranean-like weather of North Wales ...... 

Most details are on this Thread.

PM me if you want to join us.

ALL PLACES FULL NOW ......

We are twelve in total, with a ratio of four to one instructor.

Will report on this in due course ...

This is a simple assisted hoist. You wouldn’t be able to haul a skier out alone using this scheme.

This is a Z hoist. It gives a greater mechanical advantage. You could add pulleys where the ropes pull over the Karabiners to reduce friction but in the stress of a rescue I think this just adds complication. Note the locking pulley (from Petzl), this is about 50 euros but really is an essential piece of kit otherwise you have to put something like a Tibloc or prussik here and that never works well. Make sure you put the rope into the locking pulley the right way - sounds daft but easy mistake to make.

The Mariner hoist. You need a 7m length of 7mm cord. 1 tibloc, 3 karabiners and a locking pulley. It gives you enough mechanical advantage to haul a dead weight out of a crevasse. 7:1 I think. You can use one karabiner where the locking pulley is located. Make sure you’ve tied the loops in the Mariner cord before you need to set this up.

davidof - 09 September 2008 02:11 PM

The Mariner hoist. You need a 7m length of 7mm cord. 1 tibloc, 3 karabiners and a locking pulley. It gives you enough mechanical advantage to haul a dead weight out of a crevasse. 7:1 I think. You can use one karabiner where the locking pulley is located. Make sure you’ve tied the loops in the Mariner cord before you need to set this up.

Isn’t the Z pulley just a form of a mariner anyway? I make that (above) a 6 to one and would call it a double mariner or mariner démultiplié.

Basically we get more advantage as we add pulleys with the exception of pulleys added to redirect force. Without real pulleys that’s not very successful either, as you try to add advantage with crabs you increase friction to an extent where it’s self defeating. A Pulley or mini traxion or a revolver works better. What makes the most difference is how many people you’ve got to drag the rope though

Aggh I hate all this ropes over pulleys stuff anyway, reminds me of my A level applied maths. The mariner and Z should give the same ME, you are right, maybe I’ve missed something?

You’ve got one less prussik though which is good. I wouldn’t bother with real pulleys for mariner hoist, in the event of a real rescue it adds to the complication of setting the thing up and I don’t think the gain justifies this. I say this as a former pulley fan.

Maybe Bernard can tell us what he learned on his rope training weekend.

davidof - 16 September 2008 09:45 AM

Aggh I hate all this ropes over pulleys stuff anyway, reminds me of my A level applied maths. The mariner and Z should give the same ME, you are right, maybe I’ve missed something?

You’ve got one less prussik though which is good. I wouldn’t bother with real pulleys for mariner hoist, in the event of a real rescue it adds to the complication of setting the thing up and I don’t think the gain justifies this. I say this as a former pulley fan.

Maybe Bernard can tell us what he learned on his rope training weekend.

It’s just KISS though isn’t it? A Z system is simplest and I also think using a mini-traxion or similar is good with a tibloc (which I have) or a ropeman (which I don’t). At least using a revolver as the the lower crab reduces friction, playing with it I think I can detect less friction and smoother rope running.

Apologies for the delay in providing this report, but I have hardly spent 4 nights at home since the auspicious event in Wales. (I have been circumnavigating places ..... )

I really enjoyed the day and hope that everybody participating did so as well. The team at Plas-y-Brenin were superb and deserve a really big ‘thank you’.

.... and thanks too to the twelve participants ... great company .. ! 

As it was a 1-day course with very specific objectives, I felt the delivery was absolutely spot on. We covered a lot in just one day and it’s a tribute to Martin Chester that this was achievable and that it was so enjoyable as well. I felt that we absorbed the really important basics well and I believe that the course & what we learned on it will help us stay a lot safer. There is so much information out there on this aspect of ski-mountaineering – much of it so technical and so detailed that it’s of questionable use in the field. It was so refreshing to come away with a real feeling of achievement! I hope this becomes a regular 1-day course in future.

I now feel confident to plan some forays on ground that I had felt just too risky last season ...

I am hoping to post some details of Martin Chesters DVD – “Offpiste Essentials”. It’s a cracking DVD for offpiste / ski mountaineering - without flannel or ‘information overload’ so often seen in others. This is the bible of good, solid technique that works on the mountain, rather than looking good in glossy pictures. I don’t know if it’s available yet, but will post when I find out.

I am reproducing the course programme that was constructed for our brief, which was ...

We require comprehensive training in ...

Techniques for ascending & descending on ropes.

Glacial travel & crevasse rescue

Rope safety

Best equipment to carry and use.

Programme ..

9.15 KICK OFF
• Introductions all round
• I’ll put some slides and visuals together to get us “in the mood” and picturing the likely scenarios
• Include a chat about the aims and objectives
9.45 KIT REVIEW
• Choosing ropes
• Choosing kit to carry - review what you’ve got & see what we use
• Compatibility of ropes and toys (how skinny ropes react to different devices)
10.15 ish COFFEE (& Slides/Video of constructing ski belays) to begin a session on “ROPED ACCESS”:
• Getting in to steep places
• Checking out avalanche prone slopes from above
• Getting out of steep places (when you don’t like what you find)
• Why belaying each other is generally better than abseiling
• Abseiling (from simple to complex)
All then carried out in practicals out on the mat (ski slope) where appropriate

12.00 ish LUNCH (and any questions)

13.00 ish Video introduction to “Glacier travel and crevasse rescue” to introduce:
• Prussiking (self rescue) from slots
• Hoisting (rescuing a mate) from slots
• Kitting up ready for crevassed terrain
Practical sessions in ski gear in our indoor wall, and specially equipped canopy area (to include further abseiling) before moving on to “Skiing roped”:
• How to do it (taking coils, tie-ing off, pros and cons of systems)
• Why you might have to (and what to do with poles, compass, and all that faff, etc)
• Why you really don’t want to if you can avoid it (it’s pretty epic for real)
Leaving a bit of time for “Questions and Answers” at the end of the day, and a thorough de-brief over a cup of tea (and PyB cakes - of course)

We are currently planning to use a combination of footage from our own slideshows of ski expeditions and tours, along with some sneaky previews of the content from “Off Piste Essentials” to introduce each session. This will get everybody thinking along the right lines - with a picture in their minds and a context for each skill (and a chance to get a glimpse of the new film - way before it’s released - it’s not even finished yet)!

We will then carry out some practicals on the ski slope and the lawn at PyB (so bring wet weather kit if you have it). We can provide downhill skis for the slope - but this is really basic ‘intro level’ hire kit so you are welcome to bring your own along for comfort. We will not be focused on the skiing - so performance is irrelevant! For “steep” practicals we will hang about in our training wall and canopy - so something warm yet comfy (flexible) to wear would be good. We will show you how to deal with touring skis and kit whilst prussiking etc - feel free, once again, to bring your own along for the most realistic practice.

The most important thing for folks to bring along is all their technical hardware - harnesses and metalwork. Once again, we can lend you everything you need, but it’s much better to practice with your own kit.

You will notice a theme developing here! If people pitched up in comfy clothes, and enough warm layers to spend time outside, we CAN take care of EVERYTHING else. The more of your own kit people bring along - the better feedback they will receive, the better practice they will get, and the better opinion they will form about its suitability for the job. I hope that all makes sense!

I have some photos and video from the day as well.

I will certainly be looking at putting together another course next year – consolidation and perhaps a day & night out on the mountain as well.

cool.