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Video cameras
Posted: 06 September 2008 01:43 PM  
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Right.  getting stocked up for my long overdue 4 month mission to the Alps this winter. 

Are ther any techo-knowhow folks out there that can recomend a good,lightweight, hard to break, snow resistant, etc video camera?  With Zoom and un-zoom.

have been checking them out on amazon. Already got myself a wee headcam thing but also want a proper one.

Panasonic do one but the reviews varied from great to awful.  One factor was that the software didnae work on MS Vista, which could be a problem if my decrepit laptop finally packs it in and i have to get a new one and it runs vista.  Some other factors seem to be that the high definition ones seem to need a special TV, and dont work on DVD,s and need a special cable. So i dont think i want that.  there are probabaly numerous other factors consider that i dont know about.

Anyways, any experince would be interesting

Al

 
 
Posted: 08 September 2008 01:04 PM   [ # 1 ]  
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I’ve used three different video cameras for skiing/ski touring without having found one that is perfect. I’ve also done some filming using the video features of digital cameras.

Here are a list of features which I think are important:-
* fast startup time
* small
* robust
* zoom
* image stabilization
* good battery life when cold
* possible to use with gloves
* colour viewfinder
* simple controls
* lens attachments
* uncompressed video recording

Unfortunately with today’s technology some of these are incompatible. Fast startup is very handy because people don’t like waiting around in the cold while you wait for tape heads to position themselves etc. My Sony and Sanyo cameras take an age to startup. It also means that you risk losing shots. I’ve not tried DVD, but I’d be worried about it being too fragile a technology and I’ve never owned a DVD that started quickly, ditto harddisk. That seems to leave Solid State, with 32MB SD Cards there seems to be scope to take films in this format. I also don’t like tape for the slow Firewire transfers.

DVD, HD or SD Card would appear to be the solution. Transfers to computer for editing can be very fast. However they all record in compressed, lossy formats. These make editing harder work. Many packages have problems working with the more exotic formats like AVCHD and H.264 forcing you through some intermediate format… even the latest Sony Vegas is unstable editing High Definition footage. They also mean lower quality footage, especially when rendering to another highly compressed format.

Small, but not so small to be unusable, is really important to me. I want a camera I can tuck in an easy to reach inside pocket. Not something I’m going to lug around in my sack. Zoom, at least 10x, to get amongst the action. Battery life is a big issue when it is chilly.

A viewfinder is nice as often you will be filming in bright sunlight. Image stabilization, preferably optical, is useful as you will rarely be filming with a tripod.

Most recently I’ve been using the Samsung SC-HMX10 8GB HD Camcorder. This ticks only some of the above list. It is small and easy to use. However the MP4/H.264 videos it produces are a pig to edit unless you use the supply Cybersuite of tools and then I think they are converted to some kind of intermediate format. It can film in HD, which may be really nice if you have a HD TV or Projector. The SD videos are very sharp. Auto focussing can track around a bit at times but there is a manual option. There is no viewfinder, although the flip out screen is reasonably bright in sunlight. The batteries are not particularly long life, you get about 90 minutes of on time and it takes an internal, custom battery so no chance to fit some massif superstamina battery. It is enough for a day’s shooting if you are thinking of getting around 5 minutes final output. You can get spares from eBay.

I liked the idea of 60fps progressive videos (on the US model) as this would be great for slow motion. However I have to transcode these to MPEGIV using Super in order to edit them with Vegas. A bit rate of 2k-4k seems not too loose too much quality. However MPEGIV is slow to edit. The rest of the time I transcode to MPEGII, again using Super. The new Samsung SC-HMX20C will even do 300 FPS in burst mode, but not at a very high definition. I’ve not shot much HD footage yet.

So the conclusion is that Solid State is the future, but we are not there yet.

 
 
Posted: 09 September 2008 07:06 PM   [ # 2 ]  
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We just traded in our Canon GL1 for a Canon HV30.  Haven’t used it skiing, but through out the summer it has worked well for us.  It’s incredibly small and records at 1080p on mini DV tapes.  The image quality is amazing, and we picked up the camera for a reasonable $600.

If you’ll be skiing by yourself I recommend one of the VIO POV cameras.  They are a blast, it took us about half the winter to really get the hang of it, but the footage you get from it is a blast.

http://www.dongshow-productions.com

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Posted: 09 September 2008 07:07 PM   [ # 3 ]  
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Also note that editing HD is a computer killer.

http://www.dongshow-productions.com

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Posted: 12 September 2008 01:19 AM   [ # 4 ]  
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Davidof and Dongshow

Many thanks for the very thorough advice!  You certainly know your stuff, i,ll have to read these a few times before i get the full picture sorted!
cheers

Al

 
 
Posted: 12 September 2008 10:11 PM   [ # 5 ]  
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Some thinkings aloud, feel free but not obligated to respond! grin You guys may be able to tell from the following that i am a bit clueless re all this.

Dongshow:  By “Computer killer” do u mean i need a real high end desktop?  If so i need to avoid HD.  I use a laptop. i also dont know what i am doing.

So i think i,m right in saying i am best getting one with an SD card - the same thingy as my digital camera?

The amazon.co.uk reviews of your Canon HV30 r really good. On the - side it is maybe a bit pricey for someone who has never owned one before and hasnt a scoobie what he is doing. i think it is HD as well?

Davidof:  Looking at your priority list , for myself i would add:  General muppet-proofness, easy to use, easy to download, edit etc.

What am i gonna use it for: I wanna make a (10 minute -ish) season long video in the alps, good times, bad times, drunk times, large times, jumps, drops, tops, crashes, steeps, deeps etc. I dont suppose image quality is vital for that but it still matters.  the camera below seems to fit most of our established criteria except image quality

example:

Panasonic SDR-S7EB-K
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-SDR-S7EB-K-Camcorder-Black/dp/B0013XRSH6/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1221248306&sr=1-2

pansonic website:

http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/289729/module/general/compare/productsCategory.html

right, i,ve been looking at cameras for 2 hours on a friday night and i better go and something mor exciteing like watch the TV. bring on the snow.

cheers

 
 
Posted: 16 September 2008 10:05 AM   [ # 6 ]  
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I was tempted by the Panasonic. It is a very practical cam for skiing due to the small size. My main concern was the video quality - the video through the screen looked great but I was unable to view any of the clips on a computer. Obviously the MPEGII format is compressed but it seems to be much more usable than the new HD video formats.

At least with Amazon you can send it back.

 
 
Posted: 24 September 2008 11:18 AM   [ # 7 ]  
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Here is a HD clip of hot air balloons that I took on Sunday at the Icarus Cup

http://vimeo.com/1801941?pg=transcoded_embed&sec=1801941

- HD720 format on my Samsung SC-HMX10

 
 
Posted: 25 September 2008 04:10 AM   [ # 8 ]  
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wow, I can never get any embedded video to actually play in HD.  That looks beautiful.

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Posted: 25 September 2008 04:37 PM   [ # 9 ]  
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davidof that footage looks really good on the vimeo site. Really impressed with the full screen quality you get in HD. bit slow to download but you can turn off the HD feature and that seems to speed up.

Now that i have Vegas editing i wish i had an HD camera…

 
 
Posted: 22 October 2008 08:59 AM   [ # 10 ]  
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I’ve been playing with the HV30 over the weekend.

http://vimeo.com/2013319 .

My roommate was having some issues focusing in the blowing snow as it got late.  I recommend final cut to anyone looking to clip/edit.  Very simple and quick once you learn the basics.

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