Ok if you have to chose one out of

1) ABS Airbag,
2) Avalanche Beacon (ARVA)
3) AvaLung
4) or an avalanche cord

which would it be and why?

Avalanche Cords, hmmm, have you read this article ?

Dale reckons they’ve not saved anyone.

The avalanche ball is a more modern equivalent but it won’t keep you on the surface (it is just a sprung loaded canvas bag - a bit like carrying a mini Decathlon 2 second tent on your back.... now there is an idea).

http://www.lawinenball.at/

Good article about avalanche cords—I didn’t know the history at all.
Lots of years ago I owned a couple and Sharon and I used them—in addition to beacons. My memory is that the cord tended to get tangled up in things (like bushes, other climbing skiers) while I was climbing up.

Nowadays with digital beacons, the search is a lot more quick + accurate, even with much less time spent practicing than with the old analog style—so less incentive to get involved with cord.

I suspect the question of ABS versus Avalung is different for off-piste skiers than for backcountry tourers; and different for professional than for amateurs. I’ll answer as an amateur backcountry skier ...

When skiing in the backcountry with partners I’m usually required to carry a beacon—whatever I personally might think—because at least one of the partners would likely believe it was necessary, for me to be able to rescue them. Once past the requirement to wear a beacon, I make the choice to wear an Avalung, because it obviously raises the probability of me surviving getting buried—since I don’t ski with partners who practice as often as pro ski patrollers.
(Sometime I’d like to hear the reasoning of the many people who do not wear an Avalung in the backcountry when skiing with non-pro partners.)

When soloing in the backcountry I normally do not carry a beacon. I can understand the argument for an ABS in that situation (and perhaps I should think harder about using one).
For now, here’s the “emotional” reasons for why I have not so far: (a) I’ve never been fully or partially buried; (b) None of my partners have been fully or partially buried (or at least never admitted to it)—and most of my partners ski lots of days backcountry or off-piste every year; (c) The few times I’ve had or seen close calls, it was a shallow sluff which might have carried a skier over the edge of something, or into hitting something, but not burial.
So my personal or near-personal experience is all with cases where an ABS would not have helped.

I think the main reason my partners have not had much experience of burials is because we ski lots of days each year, so we don’t feel much of a need to take risks on any single day, or a single week—because we know there will be other weeks where we can achieve or experience something similar without much risk.

Also lots of my own “big goals” are more ski mountaineering, so avalanche is just one of several big risks. And usually I’m trying for my big goals in springtime when avalanche hazard tends to be more predictable.

People who only ski a week or two a year, more in winter than spring, and whose big goals are more powder-skiing—might rationally have a different answer than me.

Ken

I’ve had the ABS / Beacon debate too. Logically you would be better carrying an ABS, especially if you do ski alone at times. However I know that if I had an ABS I would take more risks. For example at the weekend I had a choice between two descents, one was in powder but had not been skied and I know the runout can be avalanche prone. The second had been skied, was a firm / frozen base with about 2-3cm of surface snow which for me presented less avalanche risk. I would have skied the power slope if I had an ABS and, given the configuration, if the slope had of gone the ABS would probably have kept me on the surface.

However as Ken says, if you tour in groups you are expected to carry beacons… and some people will expect you to have a good, digital beacon and not some old clunker Barryvox you picked up from fleabay.

For longer several day tours(eg the haute route)when the amount of weight on your back is a critical issue, does anybody have any views on the merits of carrying the extra KGs of an ABS pack?

chas - 05 January 2011 02:29 PM

For longer several day tours(eg the haute route)when the amount of weight on your back is a critical issue, does anybody have any views on the merits of carrying the extra KGs of an ABS pack?

My not-very-informed sense is that so far ABS is being used mainly for off-piste and for professional guides and ski patrollers. Other than maybe some clients of guides being required to use them, I haven’t heard much of people using ABS for backcountry tours—even for just a single day - (but I did bring my Avalung on a multi-day trip last year, and would do it again.)

There are lots of different styles of multi-day touring and lots of different multi-day routes at different times of years. If you’re on a spring ski-mountaineering tour and you’re not otherwise faster + stronger than others in your party, you carrying an ABS might slow down the whole party—and often on such tours the key to reducing avalanche risk is to get thru danger zones early in the day and quickly—so the extra weight might increase the risk. In spring mountaineering, avalanches can come from above, can be very massive, often in terrain situations that sweep you down very long slopes or over cliffs.

On a winter tour where you know you’re faster + stronger than some other members of the party, and avalaches are likely to be self-triggered and finish down into a gentler zone, an ABS might increase safety over beacon alone. Your partners should appreciate that you might be on the surface using your beacon and shovel to rescue them—in case your group wasn’t smart about spreading out (something that gets forgotten in bad weather in multi-day trips where there’s so much else to remember).

Generally on a multi-day tour, my instinct is that you get more risk-reduction per extra weight from carrying a SPOT or satellite phone than from an ABS.

Ken

I wonder if ABS is effective in spring type avalanches? People getting caught by such avalanches are relatively rare. In general there are few avalanche deaths after mid March in France - the remaining long tail are generally people at high elevations who have been caught by slabs such as on the Maudit in the summer season.

There do seem to be some people using them on day tours now though, they are obviously going to become much more mainstream in the future. I would not be shocked to see 50% of tourers using them for day tours within the decade.... along with their flying cars to get to the trail head .

My prediction is that in 10 years, ABS will be legally required for all guided parties.

So all skiers in guided parties on the Chamonix-Zermatt Haute Route in late April / early May will be slowed down by them—even though most of the professional guides well understand that the risk is thereby actually increased.

if skiers (guided or otherwise) are going slow on the haute route I’d guess it’s due to big 4 buckle boots and fat freeride skis with heavy freeride bindings - all a matter of choice!

Gear is getting lighter - no more canvas rucksacks with leather bases and shoulder straps, no more Galibier Makalu double boots (remember them!!).  We now have carbon fiber probes, alloy crampons, lightweight iceaxes, down and synthetic clothing (no more heavy damp wool and Henri Lloyd waterproofs)

If ABS sacs do get made compulsory then high volume sales will hopefully drive the price down and make carbon fiber gas canisters standard along with spectra fabric for the sacks.  Even now they don’t weight much more than the big alpine sacks of 30 years ago.

My prediction - overall we can continue to reduce the weight on our backs and on our feet whilst increasing safety, functionality and performance - it’s a matter of choice (and size of wallet!).

I’m also a beacon man although with all this talk of abs backpacks I’m thinking of at least finding out some more. Avalanche cords used to be quite widely used in the 40s / 50s but had to see them being practical for skiing. The avalanche ball thing looks like a good adaption of the idea and giving the messing around you see training groups make with beacon searches maybe it isn’t stupid?

I think the ABS system will become more common, already here in Europe they are widely used.
I always ski with ABS, Beacon, shovel & probe, the off-piste skiing here (Val D’Isere / Tignes / Les Arcs)doesn’t generally required long hikes, max around 1h.30mins. So weight is not really an issue, although as mentioned before the materials used in all the equipment is very light, I hardly noticed the ABS pack, in fact I feel it protects my back and gives it support.

An example of ABS in the field, around a week ago, a guide and his clients (3 if I remember right) were doing a very frequented off-piste here and were caught in a slab/powder avalanche, all 3 had ABS, 2 of them activated theirs but 1 of them didn’t, he was the only one who ended up buried, the rest stayed on top. Unfortunately they weren’t able to dig him out in time, may he rest in peace.

With ABS early activation is crucial (once you’re in an avalanche it is hard to do much) I have a friend who was caught in an avalanche wearing an ABS but didn’t manage to activate it in time, the avalanche hit him in the back with force throwing him onto his front, once in it he tried to grab the activation handle but every time he clenched his hand it was full of snow! luckily when it came to a stop he was near the surface and came out fine.

I heard they are developing a remote activation system, so that when a guide pulls his handle, all the ABS’s of clients set off. This would be very good, nd would give human error 2 less chances.

On my ABS I have a strap which ties onto the handle and crosses over the front of my chest giving me more to catch onto to activate. I hope I am never in a situation to have to use it!

The most important factor in surviving an avalanche is staying near the surface or on top, this is what the ABS is designed to do.

I could not agree more with Thaddeus last comment. Not only does staying on the surface prevent asphixia, but more importantly it prevents life threatening trauma (in theory). 

As per KenR’s post I too carry beacon as it is expected by my ski partners, and not becouse i truly believe that it will save my life if i am burried.

I currently use ABS vario as when i got my bag the pulse was not widely (if at all) available. However conceptually i believe it to be a better product and i suspect that in the future i will swap to the Pulse system. Hopefully by that stage they too will have a remote trigger system whioh i think is a no brainer when 2 or more people ski together.

I really see no point in the Avalung; being burried in an avalanche is nothing like snorkeling....

So to answer the OP’s question in my book it would be hard to argue against ABS being your only avalacnhe safety device.

ps I dont tour; free ride only including short hikes/rappels.

As a fan of the “light is right” philosophy I sometimes think that an ABS sack is like putting disc brakes on my carbon road bike. I love David’s honesty when he says he knows he would ski riskier lines if he had one. That is so true and human nature I think. For me a good tour comprises of good decisions, be it route choice, navigation or snow assessment. A summit and a powder decent is always a bonus but does not have to be the highlight of the day. Avoiding avalanche terrain on a potentially dangerous day can be as fulfilling as skiing that steeper line. But as my thirst for ski mountaineering increases and my patience for partner availability decreases I find myself out on my own a little more often. At these times my mind does turn to the people and animals I have left at home (and would like to come back to) and the thought of a snow pulse on my back suddenly becomes very appealing.

So what stops me? Price I think. I convince myself (using my “light is right” philosophy) that they are too heavy and that I love my Dynafit pack which weights nothing empty ( well not literally, but you get the drift). As humans, unless we are very wealthy we also do not like spending money on things we hope we never have to use. Buying an up-to-date peeps is hard enough if you already have one, but we do it mostly because it helps us help other people. I would never forgive myself if I could not find a partner quick enough because I had an ageing analogue peeps. I would trust a mountain professional with one, but not your average weekend warrior. I personally know too many people with old analogue devices who swear they can use them well, yet I have never seem them practice and they have never asked me to practice. I know for a fact that If I challenged them to a duel against my Mammut Pulse I would wipe the floor with them but because they are my friends I don’t. I just bask in the knowledge that they are safe if I am looking for them and rely on my own experience not to get avalanched.

My point being that there is a certain amount of pressure there when it comes to a peeps because it is about helping others. Now, a 700 euro rucksack is really all about yourself.  Given the choice between a new pair of Dynafit Stokes or an extra heavy rucksack that on the whole does the same job as the sack you already own is a tough call for anyone. Add to that the fact that even with an ABS type sack I am still only going to ski lower angled slopes on risky days anyway and I always manage to justify not buying one.

I do however look forward to the day when they come down in price and everyone will have one. If everyone is carrying the same weight then it levels the playing field and weight will no longer be an issue ( for day tours anyway). Although if that day ever does come I will also be in the position of carrying my lighter sack and simply saying “No. After you”

ace1 - 07 January 2011 12:25 AM

I really see no point in the Avalung; being burried in an avalanche is nothing like snorkeling.

True, but being buried in snow is not much like being buried in water—because snow usually has lots of air in it.

So an Avalung was never designed to work like a snorkel. I suggest doing some more research.

Ken

Ken, i can see why you may think i dont know how the avalung works, but the point i was trying to make (not very clearly) is that whilst underwater you have no problems with expanding your chest wall, thus creating negative pressure in your pleural space and drawing air into you alveolar space, you will not (may not) be able to do that whilst burried under avalanche debris. This is because a. avalanche debris is ‘heavier’ then water therefore exerts more pressure on your chest wall and preventing its expansion, and b. people dont snorkel with broken ribs etc. This is assuming that you have managed to hold on to your mouth piece in the choas of an avalanche. So no matter how efficient the avalung is at extracting O2(the important bit) rich AIR from the surrounding snow, preventing freezing of surrounding snow and displacing CO2 away from your face, you still need to be able to breath through your avalung, to get that air into your lungs.

Horses for courses...., you pays your money....etc, but for me its a no brainer in favour of ABS in the context of the OP question.