What gear do people use for abseiling onto slopes where there is say a 5 to 10 meter cliff at the entrance? A rope obviously but how do you set up the belay so you can recover gear? Or do you just hammer in a piton and leave it in-situ? I’ve heard of people using wooden home made deadmen anchors but this seems like it could be risky to set up and make work.

The two occasions where I have had to get a rope out are for crevasse rescue, where we’ve used skied as a belay and to get over small cliffs or steep slopes.

In the case of skis as a belay I’ve always found it a bit hairy - like the wood deadman you mention. They can pull out if you don’t do things right - once had skis come out completely and once had them move and rebed - both experiences were not fun for the guy on the end of the rope, luckily it was only an exercise.

For cliffs I’ve generally round a rock or tree to put the rope around. One thing, based on experience, I would be careful with is lowering yourself with skis on and the rope passed around your shoulders, better to put on crampons and put your skis on your back. With skis on you really want a proper belay device like a figure of 8.

With steep slopes you would normally have an experienced skier sit on snow with ski tails in snow and belay other skies, they would then ski the slope.

I use an alpine harness, and a belay plate that doubles as a descender. If its a standard route and an ab is needed then often there is some fixed gear if you look around, I am very cautious and will use my own tape rather than anything I find and I wouldn’t think twice about leaving some gear behind, it’s what it’s for. I wouldn’t ab off a snow belay unless I was really in the crap.

Rimaye - 30 December 2012 02:32 PM

What gear do people use for abseiling onto slopes where there is say a 5 to 10 meter cliff at the entrance? A rope obviously but how do you set up the belay so you can recover gear? Or do you just hammer in a piton and leave it in-situ? I’ve heard of people using wooden home made deadmen anchors but this seems like it could be risky to set up and make work.

If your asking this question I would suggest that you get on a course or go out with some people who are ALREADY competent at belay selection and types of descender appropriate for that particular type of descent. (I am not trying to be rude, you may know what your doing?)

A first port of call would be a book, you-tube, mates then PRACTICE it in your home, then get out onto a grassy slope, then a small edge with a good landing (should it go wrong) then something a bit more serious. 

ALWAYS HAVE A BACK UP SYSTEM - PRUSSIK LOOP MINIMUM, BOTTOM ROPE BE-LAYER, OR A SELF LOCKING DESCENDER.

ALWAYS TIE A KNOT IN THE END OF THE ROPE SO YOU CANT ABSEIL OFF THE END OF IT

REMEMBER IF YOU ARE GOING TO DOUBLE THE ROPE SO YOU CAN PULL IT DOWN, YOU NEED TWICE THE LENGTH OF THE ABSEIL.

EVERY SITUATION WILL BE DIFFERENT AND COMMUNICATION WITH OTHERS CAN BE DIFFICULT IN THE WIND IN A GULLY, AND YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO SEE EACHOTHER....... A WHISTLE IS A GOOD WAY -

KEEP IT SIMPLE!!

> If your asking this question I would suggest that you get on a course or go out with some people who are ALREADY competent at belay selection

You are quite right, it was more out of curiosity more than anything else. I was just wondering whether people leave gear in situ. I also had a friend tell me he could make a belay with an ice axe in the snow and had a technique with the rope to recover the axe afterwards.

Rimaye - 02 January 2013 06:35 PM

> I also had a friend tell me he could make a belay with an ice axe in the snow and had a technique with the rope to recover the axe afterwards.

Possible, when an axe is used to backup something like an snow mushroom you can rig the axe to be retrievable. The hole on the spike of some axes is there for this purpose.  Not highly recommend - you can get winter skills training in Scotland for this sort of thing if you’re interested.

My experience is popular routes have fixed gear or are through rock features you can find natural anchors. If you’re planning on abseiling you ought to take a harness etc. If it’s for an emergency you can make do without a harness. Obviously you need to know how.

Topical with the video doing the rounds right now.

Rimaye - 02 January 2013 06:35 PM

>
You are quite right, it was more out of curiosity more than anything else. I was just wondering whether people leave gear in situ. I also had a friend tell me he could make a belay with an ice axe in the snow and had a technique with the rope to recover the axe afterwards.

There are a number of documented techniques for the retrieval of ice axe and ice screw belays. Though generally they’re not used very often as they’re a faff to use and not entirely reliable for said gear retrieval.

As to the original question on a route that has a mandatory abseil in it one would generally expect to find some fixed gear in place if it’s done to any degree of regularity. Even at that as another poster has said above you should be ready to leave behind some tape/additional gear if you don’t trust the existing gear. Failing that there’ll be a solid rock/boulder/tree to loop your rope over.

If you’re in the shit then you should have enough common sense to realise that leaving behind €30/50/100+ worth of equipment is a small price to pay for getting out of trouble in a safe manner. If you’ve extensive ice climbing experience you may be lucky enough to get away with an abalakov thread though that’s something different again.